ļ»æMike Schendel
[00:00:00] Marion Ellis: Welcome to the Survey Hub podcast, the podcast for surveyors who just love what they do. I'm Marion Ellis, and in today's episode, I catch up with Mike Shandell, director of SelectServe, a surveying practice in South London specialising in survey and valuation for a diverse range of residential and commercial clients.
[00:00:47] Marion Ellis: Welcome to the podcast, Mike.
[00:00:49] Mike Schendel: Good morning, Marianne. Thank you very much.
[00:00:52] Marion Ellis: Uh, now we're both a bit nervous about doing this podcast, uh, me 'cause I haven't done one for a little while and I'm sat here with a bad [00:01:00] back. Yeah. And, uh, you, because I think you think I'm gonna lift your, the top of your skull up and get everything out of your brain
[00:01:10] Mike Schendel: yeah, it's my, it's my therapy for the day, for the week or the month, isn't it?
[00:01:15] Marion Ellis: So tell us, tell us a bit about, uh, what you do as a surveyor, Mike.
[00:01:20] Mike Schendel: my company and my partner's company is called SelectServe, we're based in South London. We do quite local. I mean, I think we stick quite locally. We do a lot of residential surveys and valuations, valuations. I have branched off slightly that I get a little bit bored with a kind of Every day, same thing.
[00:01:42] Mike Schendel: So I do now commercial schools, stuff like that. I'm trying to get into a bit more schedule of conditions and commercial rents, reviews and things like that, just because they're not maybe like any job in life. The, um, it's I, you know, you just have to vary, I think, [00:02:00] to keep it going. So that's what we do.
[00:02:02] Mike Schendel: We're very, we're doing very well. Um. Market slowed slightly, as everyone's saying, but it doesn't matter. It's a good time to take stock.
[00:02:12] Marion Ellis: How did you come up with a business name, SelectServe?
[00:02:15] Mike Schendel: now you've got me. Is that a good lead in
[00:02:18] Marion Ellis: I don't know, I just, I'm just, I'm just always, I'm just always, uh, interested
[00:02:22] Mike Schendel: Okay. So,
[00:02:24] Marion Ellis: some people talk about giving like a, uh, you know, like a parent's name or using their own name or whatever, and a name has something, and then there's quite a few that use like, you know, serve on the end. But as you were just saying it, I was just thinking, oh, why is
[00:02:37] Mike Schendel: So this is, um, we're going straight into this one. Okay. So when I, my old modeling agency, Was called Select Model Agency.
[00:02:48] Marion Ellis: Ah,
[00:02:49] Mike Schendel: So I ticked Select put 'surv and it just said, bang.
[00:02:54] Marion Ellis: So let's just go down this avenue then...
[00:02:57] Mike Schendel: Now you've got to talk to me about it, yeah.
[00:02:59] Marion Ellis: Okay, [00:03:00] so how did you, how did you get into surveying? What did you do before? Cause I, I thought you, I remember you saying you were a teacher at one point, were you? What do you, what do you,
[00:03:09] Mike Schendel: So I'm going to run through my timeline of life quickly. So I'm, what am I, 22 now? So, um, plus 30. Anyway, I'm 57 now. So I started life as a teacher, PE teacher. Well, can you believe it, in the 80s, somewhere, somewhere in the 80s, got scouted to become a model, and this was unexpected, to say the least. Um, so I cut out the teaching, went and traveled for 15 years, so 18 years.
[00:03:40] Mike Schendel: Um, while I was, while we got to the end of that career, because I was getting fatter and older. Um, I thought I've got to do something else. So my partner now, Scott, was a surveyor for ESER at the time. And I used to talk to him and we'd known each other since we were three. So we were, we went to kindergarten together.
[00:03:59] Mike Schendel: I [00:04:00] was American. And, um. I then studied at White Knights in Reading, did the correspondence course, and did that while I was traveling a lot, got that degree, and then went into two or three years before my APC, so that's when, then went around the court, worked for ESERV and another medium sized firm, and then started our, we started our own thing in 2015.
[00:04:28] Marion Ellis: so when you say, so when you say modeling, we're not just talking about like, you know, Aaron, Aaron knitted jumpers, you know, in woman's own magazine. Are we? I'm just like,
[00:04:39] Mike Schendel: out to be like that at the end. That's why I gave up, probably. Yes. No, the 80s were a really weird time. So the 80s... A male model in the 70s was probably thought of as being a certain... So, the 80s brought along a lad culture. very much a lad culture. So normal guys were then, [00:05:00] I suppose they were in advertising, they were on TV, and then moving on to that culture you've got in magazines. So, I mean, when I started it, they were, they were very, very laddish guys. There was, you know, it was a very, And the whole industry was quite geared towards, um, big glamorous time, because if you had the supermodels time, didn't you?
[00:05:21] Mike Schendel: You had all that kind of thing, so I got into then, and I was lucky, because I started at, I didn't have to start Aaron Jump and so on, whatever it's called, you know, I didn't have to start there, I started quite high up, just, so I got a few really good campaigns and advertising and commercials, and that allowed me to kind of take stock and And then I moved, um, moved around the world really.
[00:05:44] Mike Schendel: I went to, uh, Italy, France. I lived for two, two years in New York. I lived in California. Um, so, and Japan. So I've lived quite, I spent 10 years traveling, pretty much.
[00:05:55] Marion Ellis: So being a like prop, like a proper model, catwalk
[00:05:59] Mike Schendel: [00:06:00] proper.
[00:06:01] Marion Ellis: Yeah. And there are a million questions I can ask you about what's the most ridiculous outfit what's the most famous person you've met. But I also want to say, what did you, I mean, you know, for people who sort of traveled around the world, what kind of properties did you live in?
[00:06:16] Marion Ellis: Did that inspire you to be a surveyor in any
[00:06:19] Mike Schendel: really, really interesting because it did. It actually did. I'm not just saying that. So when I would, I mean, I don't, I don't want to say I was a big property person, even though my parents had moved a few times, done a few developments, et cetera. You know, I was interested in property, but it did.
[00:06:34] Mike Schendel: So if you go down to California, you look at all the timber houses, you can New York, the brownstones. You know, Paris, you know, all around the world we have our different styles, no? So you're walking the streets all day, you can't help, and my thing is always to my kids, look up, look above the shops, look up.
[00:06:49] Mike Schendel: So that's what I always did. I always looked up everywhere I went because I knew that was the world that was kind of unseen above, above the shops. Um, and so it [00:07:00] did inspire me, and what it did, it allowed me, it just, it's hard to describe, but it taught me a lot. So, so say in surveying, we always taught, the guy who taught me, it was very old fashioned, he said, rely on your senses.
[00:07:13] Mike Schendel: You don't need a damp meter, blah, blah, blah, you can rely on your senses and all of this, and your emotions in a property. Well, if you take, if you go back in time and think about, you know, if you're in a, in a Hamburg bunker doing a photo shoot and it's cold, why is it cold? It's cold because the construction of the property, so you kind of think about things and you get to a point where you've seen almost every property around the world.
[00:07:35] Mike Schendel: And so type the property, and which helps. But funny enough, nowadays I feel much safer just doing Victoria and Edwardian in London because it's too hard out there. So that's the weird thing, but yes, so it did teach me something. And it did start the journey. Yes,
[00:07:51] Marion Ellis: See, I think being a surveyor, particularly residential. It is quite a sensory, mindful thing, not to get [00:08:00] too woo woo, not that I am, but it's, but you know, you know, when you walk into a property. We use all our senses, even those that we can't even identify as such advanced human beings, that you get a gut feel that something is wrong or something's not quite right and we're there to prove, you know, and to find it rather than ignore it.
[00:08:19] Marion Ellis: Um, so I totally get that whole, that whole sensory piece. And, and also I think when you're walking into people's homes and just like you travel the world and lots of different things, you pick up a lot of, um, culture and the way that people live. You know, um, some people
[00:08:36] Mike Schendel: your shoes off in Japan,
[00:08:37] Marion Ellis: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I
[00:08:39] Mike Schendel: that thing, the respect, you know, the fact, you know, you learn so much, you know, you learn, weirdly, you know, Japanese people, which I didn't know until the time, they don't like to be given gifts, they see it as a bribe, that resonates with our industry a little bit, doesn't it, do you know what I mean?
[00:08:53] Mike Schendel: So I think about things like that, lessons learned over time, and you use them. Hopefully that's what it gives [00:09:00] you, you know, that's why I, my, my 18th birthday to my kids will be travel the world for two years and go, don't come back.
[00:09:09] Marion Ellis: that that culture and that that life experience. And I think particularly on the residential side, it gives you that bit of maturity of having to deal with different people, different backgrounds, the different things that you see good or good or bad. It can be as difficult walking to a really You know, yucky, poor, run down property for whatever reason, as much as it is to go into a high value property, knowing that there's no way on earth, even if you won the lottery, that you'd be able to afford something like that.
[00:09:40] Marion Ellis: It'd be quite, quite, quite intimidating. So you get to meet people from all different ways. So the more life experience you have, even if it's just Picking up the phone, you know, and I'm working in a call center to be in a model, traveling the world. How did you, can I ask you about that transition then going from, [00:10:00] from that to working as a surveyor or setting up your own business or doing something different?
[00:10:05] Marion Ellis: Because I come a lot of, I come across a lot of people who do this. A lot of surveyors come into surveying later on in life. It's a second career and that's a good thing. Um, but sometimes, uh, well, I used to notice that it was state agents or people who had property related, um, interests coming over into surveying.
[00:10:28] Marion Ellis: But I remember, um, I used to teach valuation on the, the Saba course a number of years ago, and I remember in the group, there was somebody who was a baker, and there was somebody who, um, repaired pianos. You know, I mean, we're just looking for the candlestick maker, you know, in that, uh, you people come from, from, from different, um, sectors.
[00:10:48] Marion Ellis: And I do think it's, it always sort of feels like quite, quite elite, but how did you find that transition transition going from
[00:10:56] Mike Schendel: Well, I think there's two sides, isn't there? Um, there's running the business [00:11:00] side, which I found very natural because my parents were self-employed as a model. You're self-employed. That's how it works. You are, you are given a kind of, you know, now they'd call it zero hours to zero hours contract or something, but that's how it works.
[00:11:13] Mike Schendel: So you do your own tax, BAT, everything. So that's very natural. That side I find very easy. The other side, the dealing with people, again, I found quite easy because of maybe. I was 45, I think, when I got into it. Um, the side that I found the most tricky, if I'm honest, is dealing with staff and related around business.
[00:11:37] Mike Schendel: That has been always tricky because I was a one man band and now we're growing and, um, it's not this tricky, it's just lessons and don't know, I don't know anything about it. I don't know, so I'm starting again on everything, so, and as you get older it probably gets a little bit harder. So if that answers your question, I didn't find it that difficult, so I was lucky enough, like your baker maybe, who's self employed, I don't know, that's, that's [00:12:00] probably the hardest jump, the hardest, so like, my partner Scott, he would openly admit he doesn't like that side of things.
[00:12:07] Mike Schendel: He just doesn't like it. That's my, my side, you know what I mean?
[00:12:12] Marion Ellis: and that's what you, you often find in a business or a business partnership is you have somebody who does the technical stuff and somebody who sort of runs
[00:12:20] Mike Schendel: He's a technical ten times better than I am. Yeah. And I am probably the business brain. Even though we're both getting better, hopefully. Like a marriage. We're starting to, we're both creeping over to the other side slowly. Um, and it is a marriage, isn't it?
[00:12:35] Marion Ellis: So how have you found running your own business then since, what was it, 2015, you said?
[00:12:41] Mike Schendel: Oh, I've loved it. I've loved it. Because... I think I was ready. I think that's one thing. I don't know. I look back and I look on your hub and I look at some of the young guys and girls panicking a bit and I can really feel for them because that is tough out there. You know, some people haven't had a mortgage, some people are at home and they're [00:13:00] running their business.
[00:13:02] Mike Schendel: I wouldn't want to do it. I'd find it tough. And, um, so I found the business to be up and down. But what I do is I just chill out and don't take a short term view. I take the yearly view. I don't ever look at the fluctuations. But what I do is we do, and you told me this, and I'm sorry, because I'm not sure if I'm allowed to say this, but when you helped us, me, you taught me to have weekly meetings, which I say I don't fluctuate. One thing I do fluctuate on is my prices. So we're on our weekly meeting that we have with Chantel RPA.
[00:13:39] Mike Schendel: We talk about prices and fees and where the market's going. But what I don't do is I take a long term view. no point otherwise. You're just going to panic. And we've seen enough wars, famine, and stuff, haven't we, to know that we've got, this is my fourth recession in my life or something, so it's fine.
[00:13:59] Mike Schendel: It'll be [00:14:00] fine.
[00:14:02] Marion Ellis: It is really hard out there for, uh, say younger surveyors or newer surveyors into the sector because the property market does go up and down. Or rather, depends which newspaper you read as to whether there's a crisis and a crash and different, and different things. But you have to be, you have to understand why you do it.
[00:14:23] Marion Ellis: What you're there to provide, but it's so easy to, um, you know, read some, read something, hear somebody panicking. Um, and when I see, you become very reactive, don't you, to, well, hands in the air that, you know, somebody, somebody somewhere's got a claim, that's it. It's the end of the world. Why should I be in this business?
[00:14:46] Marion Ellis: Similarly, you know, as we're recording this. Um, today, you know, a medium sized firm has, um, uh, ceased trading
[00:14:53] Mike Schendel: I saw,
[00:14:54] Marion Ellis: who've, who've lost their, their, their jobs. And it's interesting because I've been [00:15:00] contacted by, um, a number of surveyors who don't run their businesses, you know, work for, for others.
[00:15:05] Marion Ellis: And they've been, they're so, um, uh, disenchanted, if you like, about. You know, their hopes and dreams for a career and all of a sudden it's doom and gloom and you get into that, into that spiral. Um, and I do think a lot of people don't, a lot of surveyors don't understand enough about business. I think, I
[00:15:27] Mike Schendel: they don't 100%. I can see the mistakes all the ferns. I mean, if I may, and this is quite insensitive, but the best that, you know, as you get further away from your locality, and you spread yourself thinner, you're more open to the fluctuations. There's no doubt about it. And I could walk down the road here and clap on my ballot, go and see a couple of agents and drum up work for next week if I want to, or make a few phone calls.
[00:15:55] Mike Schendel: You know what I mean? It's just easy because it's trust. But as you know, the harder, you know, and so [00:16:00] I think that's, if I'm wrong, I may be wrong, forgive me. The firms I'm seeing going tend to be the ones that are spreading slightly and maybe too quickly. Maybe, you know, sometimes I wouldn't do it now because I've seen a mistake.
[00:16:11] Mike Schendel: Yeah, it's hard. It's very difficult to
[00:16:13] Marion Ellis: think you're right. It's, it's spreading yourself thin. It's, it's chasing the fee. Whereas, and I think that's a really good point. It's something I sometimes ask my clients, you know, is if you had to earn, you know, a thousand pounds tomorrow or this week. Do you know how you could go and drum up that business?
[00:16:31] Marion Ellis: And a lot of them don't. They'll be saying, well, I'll get on a panel or I'd, you know, um, wait, sit and wait for the work to come in or, uh, but you have to, you know, if you're in front of your own business, you have to know how to do that. And it's a reminder that that's all you need to do.
[00:16:50] Mike Schendel: Yeah, yeah, I don't know. Everyone's different, aren't they? And everyone's locality is different. But I do think, going back to what you said, I mean, I [00:17:00] think if, you know, almost a business lesson to all the young guys would really help really would. You know, you're kind of, rather than, we always focus on something, don't we? You know, maybe we should be focusing on, especially now, what is the business, you know, VAT, it's like going back to school, isn't it? Whoever taught you about VAT, whoever taught you about tax, whoever taught you about anything, you know, financially, and what we lack, and, and I think that's, yeah, I suppose, yeah,
[00:17:30] Marion Ellis: But if you, but equally, if you don't know, and that isn't your bag, you find somebody who does, you know, just like you and Scott in your, you know, business as a partnership, you know where your responsibilities are and you know, you've got the right jigsaw pieces if you'd like to
[00:17:45] Mike Schendel: So I started it, forgive me, I kind of glossed over this, I started this for a year by myself, and after a year I was either going to give up, Or bring Scott in. If Scott said no to me, I think I would have given up. I found it too, I'll go back to the corporate sector. I [00:18:00] found it too hard.
[00:18:01] Marion Ellis: Why, why was that then just the
[00:18:02] Mike Schendel: technically probably wasn't as good as I thought I was and I wasn't ready.
[00:18:06] Mike Schendel: If I'm really honest, I wasn't. I'd been doing homebuyers at the corporates and I was stepping up to building surveys. I was getting myself in a little bit of trouble. Only because I just didn't know enough and honestly he, he helped me in that regard and without him and someone to bounce off all the time, that bounce thing, you know, whenever you're stuck or whenever you've had a claim or just, just to lessen the load, um, allows you to move forward, doesn't it?
[00:18:31] Mike Schendel: So that was, yeah, you're spot on with that. I'd always recommend someone does it with someone else, starts a business, if they can.
[00:18:41] Marion Ellis: So is this quite, at the moment, there's a, um, A bit of a culture of, well, I start, start up on my own. They, they new, new starters, find it hard to find mentors or to find the right role, whereas firms don't necessarily wanna take on trainees or there are some who work for [00:19:00] themselves and they don't wanna help others because it's a bit of competition in the patch and it's a nightmare to try and try, try and navigate, you know?
[00:19:07] Marion Ellis: Uh, I have to
[00:19:08] Mike Schendel: is. It is.
[00:19:10] Marion Ellis: the more I guess we can, you know, just. Talk about it, the solutions will be found, you know, we don't have to have all of the answers, you
[00:19:19] Mike Schendel: There's, okay, so this is, I think, you know, I'm quite proud of myself because I wouldn't have done this at 20, 30, or 40, just trust me. So Jeremy, you know, I'm a, so you never met Jeremy, but Jeremy, Jeremy decided to go by himself, um, and he still sits next to me. in the office. He's still in the office of all the welcome and, and because now later in life slightly, I realize that there is a lot to be gained from both of you doing it.
[00:19:42] Mike Schendel: I'm watching it, I see his enthusiasm. One, I'm bouncing off of that again. Two, you know, he's not trying to stitch me up. He's trying to like do his own thing in his own life. And you get to that point, don't you, in life a little bit more when you bring me on the block a bit like, you know. been [00:20:00] married four times or something, isn't it?
[00:20:01] Mike Schendel: And now you just get, hopefully you learn. And, um, and, um, so yeah, that I think, and I don't, would never have done let him sit there in my 20s. It would have been competition. It would have been, it would have been someone who was absolutely trying to, you know, take something from me as a lion that I'm not going to allow. I don't see it like that at all anymore. I think there's enough work for all of us, if we do the right thing, and we do the right job, and everyone's, you know, real cool. There is
[00:20:30] Marion Ellis: but, but I suppose it's a bit of life experience,
[00:20:33] Mike Schendel: Yeah. It is life
[00:20:34] Marion Ellis: that's got you to, to, to that. There's um, there's a quote that I sometimes rattle off to people by a lady called Bernadette, Bernadette Giwa. And it's, when you know who you are. You're not competing. Good, isn't it? When you, when you know who you are, what you're about, why you do what you do, you're not, you're not competing.
[00:20:58] Marion Ellis: Yeah.
[00:20:59] Mike Schendel: when you can, [00:21:00] yeah, when you can stand back and say, I'm comfortable with my skin, it's a nice feeling. And I was funny enough, I was talking to someone the other day about who are looking at my children and thinking, Oh my God, I'm so pleased I'm not young. It's so, it's so difficult to be young, isn't it? Anyway, it's going, you know, we all learn and live and learn. But I suppose what I want to say to, if anything, to the younger guys is, take your time because it's tricky. It's tricky. Don't get yourself in trouble. Because once you burn yourself, you burn yourself, haven't you, in your locality. Take your time if you can.
[00:21:34] Mike Schendel: There's no rush. You know, I was, I think, you know, because I, I, I, you know, I believe that these kids, unlike you and I, well, you're younger than you, but you know, they're going to live to a hundred and they are, you know, if they started their career at 25, you know, 45, they may have burnt out anyway and want another career and that's good as well.
[00:21:54] Mike Schendel: So I think they've got to realize the flexibility, they've got to be flexible in their brains now, and they've got to be emotionally flexible. [00:22:00] And I just, I'm a really big believer that stop beating yourself up and just move on. Keep moving on. You'll be fine, but don't rush if you can. Don't rush.
[00:22:13] Marion Ellis: It's taking the time to learn from failure, but also learn from your successes. And even things like, and I, you know, we do this in my, in my mastermind, you know, at the end of the week, just reflecting on what's gone well. You know, if it didn't go well, what did you, what did you do to overcome it? How did you get, get through it?
[00:22:32] Marion Ellis: Um, and just sometimes taking that time to, to reflect. You know, just like you have your, your weekly meetings and check in and it can make such a difference. But when you work for yourself, you don't always, don't always have that. It doesn't mean that you can't do it. Sometimes it's just, you know, it's.
[00:22:49] Marion Ellis: Setting yourself a little reminder to check in. How was it? I do it myself. I work myself, you know, um, but it does help you then with that, that growth [00:23:00] mindset, I guess, of noticing what's going well, what isn't. Um, if things didn't go well, why was that? Was it something to do with your work really? Or was actually just because there was stuff going on in your life?
[00:23:12] Marion Ellis: Um, you know, physically are you tired, you know, you're not well, it's different stuff because we're all human at the end of the day. It's interesting you say, sorry go
[00:23:22] Mike Schendel: know, I was going to say that, and sorry, I'm blowing your trumpet all the time, but you told me something to do and it's been invaluable. I just ask people my stuff, how they are. And like, Oh my God, everyone opens up to you. I'm just really shocked. I've never asked anybody out there. Good morning. What are we doing?
[00:23:39] Mike Schendel: You know, work always work. People open up and it gives them the freedom. And do you know what? It sounds really stupid. Since I've said that to them, like, people just weren't taking holidays. I was like, that's great, I love it, but please take holidays, you're going to burn out. Please, please, please take holidays.
[00:23:59] Mike Schendel: Now [00:24:00] people are taking holidays. I think we've opened that space. And silly things, like I just said, it sounds really a bit hippy dippy, but it's worked. Thank you.
[00:24:07] Marion Ellis: on, but you know, it's um, what you're doing, you're creating psychological safety,
[00:24:12] Mike Schendel: Yeah,
[00:24:12] Marion Ellis: know, it's the, those, those spaces where people can say, actually I'm not coping, or they can say, actually Mike. This is not right. This is not the job that we should do, or this is, you know, a risk. Um, and it starts with those, those small things, you know, but creating that, and that's all part of employee engagement and, and things, but creating those spaces where you can, can speak is so important because you work with people.
[00:24:40] Marion Ellis: You know, just going back to your, you know, the hardest part is managing people and, and all that comes with
[00:24:46] Mike Schendel: It's been the biggest lesson to me. I'm not ever going to get it right in this lifetime. But that is, it's one thing I've just had to start zero and start, you know, and it was, yeah, it's a lesson. That's a hard one. [00:25:00] Like you said, even though you say that you're, you're self employed, you work by yourself, you interact with millions of people, don't you?
[00:25:06] Marion Ellis: Millions as
[00:25:07] Mike Schendel: millions. I heard at the hub as, but yeah, as, um, but yeah, I mean, where we, what we did, we see, I see some this morning, I said, hello, how are you? Property five second chat in and boom, gone. Now in the office all day by myself, aren't I? So that, and that's, so yeah, it's, it's learning. To, yeah, it's good.
[00:25:28] Mike Schendel: And I think the Jeremy situation, when he lit his podcast, hopefully he'll be happy. That's, from you, that allowed me to be that person as well. It's much better. It's much better.
[00:25:38] Marion Ellis: I ask you how you feel about being a leader of your business? You know, sort of being in charge. Do you enjoy that?
[00:25:45] Mike Schendel: it. I don't like it, if I'm honest. It's my least favourite thing. Because, politically, I don't really believe in the kind of... You know, pyramid downwards thing, I believe, but, but then I'm a hypocrite because I like having a bit [00:26:00] more money in there. So I kind of like, I'm like a champagne socialist aren't I, in my mind.
[00:26:07] Mike Schendel: Um, so I don't enjoy the leadership thing. I enjoy the business kind of quote thing, like you were just saying, like I enjoy planting one seed and see if it goes, where it grows, but I don't enjoy, I tend to leave the leadership thing to Scott and Chantal and a bit more, I think, I think I do anyway. Um, yeah, I don't find that very interesting because the typical lead up is a bit authoritarian aren't they? And I've had that at my jobs in surveillance and I
[00:26:41] Marion Ellis: Well, I think, you know, I think, I think leadership is, is interesting because leadership isn't necessarily the same as being in charge. You know, you can be in charge and make decisions. Leadership can be lots of. different things, you know, you're, you're a [00:27:00] leader in terms of the way that you, you know, rally the troops, the way that you manage the business, the way that you, you know, work with people in your, you know, uh, uh, the three of you in your, you know, your leadership team.
[00:27:15] Marion Ellis: Um, and I often see that, uh, some surveyors. Well, it's interesting. I love people watching survey surveyors, but we've got like some surveyors who are in charge because they've been there the longest, but they probably absolutely hate managing people dealing with all the HR type stuff. You know, they look, but they love the being respected for the technical side of the, uh, the job.
[00:27:40] Marion Ellis: But so the leadership role they've got, you know, sort of more people leadership rather than technical. Leadership, authority, if that, if that makes sense.
[00:27:51] Mike Schendel: I think that when the corporates, I see, I saw better surveyors in the corporates still there than ever started their own business, but they just [00:28:00] couldn't make the switch. Is that me being in? So
[00:28:04] Marion Ellis: No, that's alright, I can't hear anything. It's usually...
[00:28:08] Mike Schendel: Good.
[00:28:09] Marion Ellis: Might be me.
[00:28:10] Mike Schendel: Um, so sorry. Um, they, um, and so they made it and then in surveying practices, I tend to find people weren't like this, but we're not quite as good technically as these other guys, but we're better business. So, and perhaps leadership. So we just have those qualities. I think you can. It makes me think about succession.
[00:28:33] Mike Schendel: And the fact that someone, it's a good business to buy a surveying firm, you make X amount of money per year, pretty steady. And you can be a businessman and run it from the top just as a business and you can then just run a team, can't you? So it's almost a good business for, uh, a good practice for a businessman just to walk in the door and make a good amount of money out of as well in terms of succession, in terms of [00:29:00] you don't always have to sell to the trainees.
[00:29:03] Mike Schendel: Does that make sense? That's probably why I'm
[00:29:05] Marion Ellis: yeah, it does.
[00:29:06] Mike Schendel: cross into business quite a lot.
[00:29:09] Marion Ellis: And we see this actually with some, um, some surveying businesses out there where they, they've got non surveyors running the business.
[00:29:17] Mike Schendel: Yes,
[00:29:18] Marion Ellis: And then, but then, but then you have a bit of a disconnect of trying to run it in a. You know, a slightly different way to the way that surveyors in the market want and what's needed, but it's just being in tune, isn't it?
[00:29:31] Marion Ellis: You know, you, you can have anybody in a leadership position as long as you're gel as a team and you understand what's the vision for the business. What's the plan? What are you there? Who are you trying to help? What's the, the reason and just keep on coming back to that and, and aligning
[00:29:46] Mike Schendel: it's a business plan, isn't it? It is a plan. It's a plan that you've got to keep, you've got to have business. There's a reason why banks ask for business plans when you want to get a loan, isn't there? There's a proper reason. I mean, putting science to it is very, very [00:30:00] important. And you keep that, um, you keep on that path.
[00:30:05] Mike Schendel: And the moment you veer off of that path, like we've been seeing with some firms having trouble, is when you, when you do get, yeah, keep to that plan always. Don't ever move. Our motto has always been local. I notice as soon as we get off of that path and I accept jobs that were not in my locality, I get myself in trouble a little bit, which is pretty obvious what RICS says you shouldn't do and blah, blah, blah. So, you know, there's no, there's no, again, it's not rocket science, but I just, so that is my number one thing.
[00:30:36] Mike Schendel: Keep, keep local. And,
[00:30:38] Marion Ellis: come back to knowing who you are and what you do as a business, isn't it?
[00:30:42] Mike Schendel: absolutely, absolutely, and, and, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, it works for us, yeah, and I think it's always worked, you know, and I think that's probably what, I'm not saying the guys who are starting, because the guys who are starting have got enthusiasm, and they could travel a lot more, and they could do all this, but I think [00:31:00] if you can keep local, in your locality, you will do better long term.
[00:31:04] Mike Schendel: Only
[00:31:08] Marion Ellis: One of the things I know you're passionate, um, as a business is like supporting charities. And I know you do a bit with, um, Battersea Dogs Home, don't you? Is
[00:31:18] Mike Schendel: softy, and I love dogs more than people.
[00:31:21] Marion Ellis: Tell me about how that, how that comes up,
[00:31:23] Mike Schendel: Oh, so it really came about by, I have two lovely boxer dogs, and... Which I adore, and um, I was doing, I was asked to do a job for them, and then I went there to, so they need, all these commercial people now as I'm trying to get more into my commercial, they, they need a health and safety plan every five years or so for each different part.
[00:31:46] Mike Schendel: So it could be a metal stairs, and I've got to go along and just check the metal stairs, sign it off, and look at the corrosion, blah, blah, blah. But, and then, while I was there, I was looking over the tops, I mean, it was just heartbreaking. [00:32:00] I could have never left. I could have stayed there my first time, and I just stood there all day and night.
[00:32:04] Mike Schendel: And so, I just thought to myself, If you want to give something back, where do I want to give something back to? So what I do is I prefer to work for them now. They call me up and I just go down and do their health and safety stuff. And I know dogs are only dogs, but I just kind of feels like I'm doing something.
[00:32:23] Mike Schendel: And what it does, it allows us to also as a firm. So say I'm doing, I don't know. For instance, last week I went and helped an older lady and just did a little job for her. Don't charge, you know, don't pay, just send a hundred pounds to Batsy Doxer. So it allows those little things in the community you can do, without being awkward.
[00:32:43] Mike Schendel: She's got a cheque for a cow, you know, from Abbey National or something, and I'm going, no, just, you know what I mean, I haven't seen a cheque for about two years, but, and I'm just saying, no, just send, you know, she said she was going to go down there to the cafe on Sunday and give them a hundred pounds. So I love that, and it's my little bit, [00:33:00] so that when I go upstairs to meet my maker, he will take me in.
[00:33:04] Marion Ellis: And I think there's something there for, I think for a lot of people on, you know, yeah, you've got your business and the, and the things that you do to earn money, but there are so many different ways that you can. Make an impact or make a difference to the, the things that, that matter. One of the things that, um, I, well, I do all sorts of things.
[00:33:24] Marion Ellis: Cause I go down rabbit holes, you know, with my women in surveying and the, the surveyor hub and things like that. But every time someone books in to do a podcast or joins the surveyor hub, um, or joins my mastermind, then I use something called B1G1 and.
[00:33:41] Mike Schendel: It's like a token thing.
[00:33:43] Marion Ellis: Yeah, and it sort of like makes, um, you know, like a donation and it makes impact.
[00:33:47] Marion Ellis: So it's not just, you know, donating a tenner to somebody, you know, um, we've been collecting bricks. So every time we did some, uh, survey hub sessions earlier on in the year and, you know, a load of bricks were donated to help [00:34:00] someone build a home and, and it's making an, it's making an impact and, you know, listen, if I can do it as a small business by myself, then lots of other people can do lots of things, but I suppose.
[00:34:11] Marion Ellis: Some people feel it's a bit, um, inauthentic, maybe, I don't know, sort of pairing with charities or donating with
[00:34:19] Mike Schendel: I think, I think,
[00:34:20] Marion Ellis: you approach it, I suppose, isn't it? I don't
[00:34:22] Mike Schendel: I think, again, what I've done in my 20s, that's, I don't know, man. I think, I think I'm looking forward, I'm planning my life and I'm thinking I'm 57 now. Okay, I'll stop at 65. I'll be doing a couple of surveys a week. Then what do I want to do? Okay. So my, where do you want to get back? So that when you do go upstairs, he does let you in, keep your shoes on.
[00:34:41] Mike Schendel: Um, so I want to give back by, you know, maybe schools, let's say schools, let's go down the school route, you know. We can give back, can't we? We can give back churches, charities, anything. Just give back. And I think, but then maybe that's an older thing, is it? I don't know. Maybe, because
[00:34:57] Marion Ellis: I think you, I think you get to a point in life, maybe, [00:35:00] where the work you do has to be more meaningful.
[00:35:05] Mike Schendel: has to be. It has
[00:35:06] Marion Ellis: You know, you're, you might be on the hamster wheel of, you know, doing the work, earning the money, or bringing up the kids, whatever it is, but you just get to a point where... You know, what does this mean?
[00:35:19] Marion Ellis: What's what difference does it make? And, and I don't know whether it's, you know, I know there's other people who listen to this who aren't in residential, but when you see people's lives and you see the things that are important and the roofs over people's heads, and you think, well, if you can put yourself in a position to make a difference, and it's not that hard to do, then why wouldn't you?
[00:35:42] Mike Schendel: Yeah, absolutely. There's no reason not to. If you can, just, well, I know, and I get the, it's not authentic and stuff, I get all that, but it's just like, yeah, yeah, I'm the first to criticise people, you know, the Bonos and the Stings of the world. If I had a [00:36:00] revolution, I'd be first up against the wall, but that's just my little personal quirks.
[00:36:03] Mike Schendel: Right. Um, but, um, you know, so I agree. I agree. It's, you know, I think I liked it. It makes me feel good. It's selfish as well. It makes me feel good about myself.
[00:36:16] Marion Ellis: Well, that's the thing. If it, you know, it's, um, it's hard not to do. Thank you. Good without feeling good at the same time,
[00:36:23] Mike Schendel: Yeah, I agree. And then there is, and I think, you know, well, where are we going to use this knowledge? How are we going to use this knowledge? My kids don't want to be a solaire. So. So how am I going to use it? There will be knowledge and there will be boredom time in the future and, and, you know, put it together.
[00:36:40] Mike Schendel: And we've got a really good thing going on to help people, haven't we?
[00:36:45] Marion Ellis: you mentioned, um, you mentioned before about our kids leave it live living to over a hundred and you just talking there about the future and your retirement plan. Um, I do know what in my head I can just see you being a dog walker.
[00:36:59] Mike Schendel: Ah, [00:37:00] I've got a bad
[00:37:00] Marion Ellis: cat, a catwalk, catwalk, dog walker.
[00:37:02] Mike Schendel: if you could get me to the front of the hip replacement list, maybe. Um. Do you know what? Yeah, it's so true. Yeah, wouldn't that be lovely?
[00:37:11] Marion Ellis: What, what do you think about the future of surveying? Not to be
[00:37:15] Mike Schendel: I see, I don't really, I haven't been down this wormhole of AI and stuff and stuff. It's still a people's business. Well, it's residential. It's still a people's business. What you're going to do is send a drone in there. I don't understand it. Maybe you might tell me now, I'm, there is a, I think the future of surveillance is very healthy.
[00:37:32] Mike Schendel: I don't think we can be replaced. I think certain parts will be replaced, but then again, taking the old Audit and Survey maps out of the drawer, again, just looking at it on the net, I mean, amazing. So, I think it's going to be more efficient. Unless I'm missing something, I think the future survey is very healthy. It's very healthy. I can't see a downside to it. Personally. Am I wrong? Is there something I'm missing?[00:38:00]
[00:38:01] Marion Ellis: think it's evolving. Just like surveying has always evolved. You know, there was a time when we didn't have homebuyer surveys, for example. Um, And more information and data, you know, like maps online and the upfront information and all of those things. It's helpful, but it doesn't help you feel perhaps as a home buyer or somebody who owns a home, feel confident or to know what to do.
[00:38:30] Marion Ellis: You know, you can have all the information in the world, but what, what do you do? And that's where I think as surveyors. And perhaps the way that you run your business and the kind of surveys that you do, you don't don't feel it as much because you probably do it already, but some people don't interact with their clients, they don't talk to them about their fears and worries, you know, so when, when people are phoning up to get a survey, you know, and to get a quote.
[00:38:57] Marion Ellis: They're probably, you know, most people talk about when can you do it? How [00:39:00] much is it, you know, terms, all of those things. Whereas the starting point of a conversation could be, tell me what you're worried about. What do you think I can help you with? You know, you start to tune into those really personable, um, um, bits.
[00:39:14] Marion Ellis: And, and that's where talking to clients and understanding people can really help. So whatever information comes, you know, or how things change is. It comes back to the, you know, surveying being sensory, you know, you move in, what is it going to be like to live in this room?
[00:39:32] Mike Schendel: Well, so I, I would think that, I mean, this is a guess, Chantelle would tell me more. I would think we get, I don't know, say every year, say we get 10, 10 inquiries a day. Let's just say 10 inquiries a day. So we get 50 a week. My maths is terrible. It's 50 times 50. And then, but that's how many, you know, different clients we're dealing with, aren't we? Different personalities, different emotions. So we, you need to start off, you need to start off with [00:40:00] the question, what, yeah, what does he want out of this? What's growing you? What, what can we do for you? Can you give me a list of what you want? We need to start that before you start the quote. You have to, you're spot on because otherwise you can't, you can't deal with everyone.
[00:40:13] Mike Schendel: You've got to have, you've got to know them slightly. You've got to know what foreign buyers are like who are buying from Hong Kong. You've got, you know what I mean? You get to feel so 100
[00:40:23] Marion Ellis: that, yeah, that, that's an interesting way to put it. So, you know, 10 inquiries a day, 50 inquiries a week, that's 50 different people who all want different things, have different expectations.
[00:40:38] Mike Schendel: percent different
[00:40:38] Marion Ellis: How, how do you, how do you manage it? And yet they're all coming to you for what?
[00:40:44] Mike Schendel: They're coming to you for peace of mind and comfort, first of all, I find,
[00:40:48] Marion Ellis: And
[00:40:48] Mike Schendel: but touching on, and that's the number one thing they're looking for, they're looking for a safe pair of hands going back to back in the day, especially probably used to use, and then, [00:41:00] and they're moving forward, and now because my brain is jumping. What we're talking about, I mean, what's the future? So is the future going to be, um, you know, to do with the environment, how we deal with the houses in the future, all that. So that's the rabbit hole. I haven't gone down enough because I'm too busy. But that is the change of the future probably, isn't it?
[00:41:21] Mike Schendel: And it'll probably catch me out. Um, but that's where it's going somewhere. I've started to see, um, health surveys for houses. I've started to see, I had a client the other day that said he was been employing a surveyor after my survey. Spent 450 on a health survey to walk around the property when he moves in.
[00:41:42] Mike Schendel: I was like, I'll have that money, I'll do it. But, you know, clever. Someone's jumped into that market. Future plan. His house. He wants to live there. 10 years of his wife, bring up two children. He wants to start. That's, you know, he doesn't want surprises.
[00:41:56] Marion Ellis: that's the difference, isn't it? This is moving away from here's a [00:42:00] report which is sold effectively as an insurance guarantee. Whether we say the words or not, that's the, the impression that the public, public have. But what they want is help with how do I live in this home? How does it keep me safe for the next 10, 50 years?
[00:42:16] Marion Ellis: How, you know, how can I expand it when I discover I'm having twins or, you know, I'm getting a boxer dog or whatever,
[00:42:22] Mike Schendel: Yeah. How do you knock that wall down? Is it safe? Is it, is that walled low bearing? All those things that hopefully you're the next point you're, yeah, come back to you. But I think it's changing quite rapidly in that department. It's just that, that reminds me, I've got to take someone on to do all that work.
[00:42:40] Mike Schendel: Um, yeah, it's hard, isn't it? It's hard because that's a big field. I mean, that is a whole new
[00:42:45] Marion Ellis: It is, but there's, so there's a, there's a couple of things I'd mentioned. There's a, um, a new RICS, um, I don't know if it's a, I think it's a guidance note on healthy buildings. I'll put a link to it in the show notes and send it to you. [00:43:00] Um, because that's, um, that is, you know, how we live in our, our homes and it being healthy is a certainly way.
[00:43:07] Marion Ellis: Something that we should all have on our radar and our challenges as surveyors is how do we bridge that gap between, you know, this utopia of everything being healthy and sustainable and great and bringing it back to the reality of you walking into a property today and what does it look like and how do you help
[00:43:22] Mike Schendel: Yeah,
[00:43:23] Marion Ellis: The other thing on the, on the sustainability side, um, and energy efficiency and those side. I think it's a really interesting time. I've tried to push myself to attend different events, webinars, training. Um, I'm doing some retrofit training, uh, uh, next month. Um, I went to a webinar, the Harris, sorry, the Harris debate in, um, the RICS, which was all talking about how is it going to be funded and all of those things, and so much of it was over my head. the more you sort of familiarize yourself with it, the more I [00:44:00] start to see, you know, how we can sort of bridge the gap or, or understand. But the thing with the whole sustainability piece is that right now we don't know if the things that we're doing to properties are going to help or hinder in the next 20 years.
[00:44:16] Marion Ellis: Are they going to be the defects of the future like we're seeing with spray foam or? You know, uh, external wall insulation and things because it's not being done properly. Um, you know, and it's, so it's hard to sort of go down that road because we don't know what we're, there's no certainty. There's
[00:44:34] Mike Schendel: No, we don't know what, there's a, no, yeah.
[00:44:36] Marion Ellis: It's hard to advise clients on what the right or wrong thing is to do. And so it's sort of having that watching brief, um, of how things evolve until the right course comes along or the right, uh, you know, bits of information, but there's, there's certainly for, um, for clients, you know, they, they want to know more and.
[00:44:59] Marion Ellis: You know, [00:45:00] being energy efficient is not the same as, um, sustainability and saving the climate and getting to net zero, because all the things you might do to a property could be different. And what we seem to be missing is, what's that whole bigger picture? What's the whole vision? Which is for someone to live in a home that's healthy and keeps them well, doesn't destroy the planet at the same time.
[00:45:25] Marion Ellis: Because if we don't look after people, you know, we can look at, we can focus on the planet, but there might not be people to live in it on the planet. You know, what comes first? And it's that sort of bigger picture that
[00:45:35] Mike Schendel: We should be at the forefront of this, shouldn't we? I mean, even in front of architects, really, but then unfortunately, someone like Phil Spencer would come along and take our thunder again. But, you know, we really should be, shouldn't we? Somewhere, um, that's our job, isn't it? It is our job. It's not for me because I, you know, but it's for the next bunch, I think, to come along and really grab that.
[00:45:56] Mike Schendel: And, and. Push that forward. I mean, I think we're in the [00:46:00] middle transition at the moment, aren't we? Like I say, I only saw my second ever external, um, render installation render the other day and it was damp inside. I've never, so how do I learn? I'm in the middle of London. You don't see it. So how does one learn?
[00:46:16] Mike Schendel: But we've got to go on these courses, of course, and, and, and fights is going to come more and more and more.
[00:46:20] Marion Ellis: Yeah. And this is where, if we're really, if as a, uh, you know, a professional, we're really committed. To this, then all of this stuff has got to be readily accessible, you know, the norm, you know, included in our fees, whatever, so that it's, it's just what we do, you know, and things got to, got to change. But at the moment, it does feel like we have to find the time, push ourselves to learn stuff that seems quite alien to us,
[00:46:45] Mike Schendel: I'll be really honest. I wake up some mornings and I see a client has contacted me. I see something flash on my email when I'm in bed and I think, oh, no, it's a complaint because I haven't spoke to him for six months. But it's actually just saying to Mike, how you doing? I just wanted to question about.[00:47:00]
[00:47:00] Mike Schendel: You know, is that all of it? But so you hide, you hide, you start to hide. It's really bad, but you do, you kind of hide in your head because you're worried about the claims culture and things like that. So it's trying to find the balance of all these things. And I think it's difficult. Um, yeah, it's very, now you're talking to me now.
[00:47:20] Mike Schendel: I've got all interested in this now. Suddenly I'm going to start going on these webinars. They are actually really
[00:47:25] Marion Ellis: a link to it.
[00:47:26] Mike Schendel: Okay, okay, you've got me now going now thinking about it. Um, but it's,
[00:47:32] Marion Ellis: it's interesting you saying there about, that about claims though, because it, it does. Scaras. Um, they are upsetting. They're few and far between in context, you know, and I think we have to remember that. Um, but it's quite an emotional thing to get over as much as a practical and sometimes financial thing to get over.
[00:47:52] Marion Ellis: And I suppose that's where, as our profession and roles evolve. You know, it moves from not just [00:48:00] giving someone what they feel is an insurance guarantee and then drop you an email six months to say, what does this bit on the house do, Mike, or, you know, can I ask you a question? And it's evolving that relationship to the thing that you do is, yes, you give them some initial advice, but then you plan in that check in three months, six months, where are you at?
[00:48:18] Marion Ellis: What can I help you with? And it becomes the norm, which is a diffuses that,
[00:48:23] Mike Schendel: It does diffuse, that's the word. If you can do that, and I have done that on occasions. When I've seen, how can I say, the house is a bit, a bit, you know, the house is always going to throw up a lot of problems, I can feel it, and they're not ready for it, they haven't read the report. So I do try and check in occasionally with these people on these ones, and it does diffuse a lot of problems.
[00:48:45] Mike Schendel: But it's having time. Isn't it? A medium sized, small sized firm, it finds it hard to have time,
[00:48:52] Marion Ellis: Oh, but you see, that's, that's where, I mean, it is initially taken a leap of faith, but it's, it's repositioning what your [00:49:00] service is. So
[00:49:01] Mike Schendel: Mm hmm.
[00:49:02] Marion Ellis: isn't just here's the report I'll speak to you before and after, you know, if at all your service is. I'm going to expect the property. We are going to talk.
[00:49:13] Marion Ellis: If you're going to work with me, we are going to talk afterwards. That's non negotiable. Let's book in the time to do that. And you're paying for that. And you're paying for me to speak to you again in three months and six months.
[00:49:22] Mike Schendel: If they want to, they can.
[00:49:24] Marion Ellis: it's, it's changing the, it's taking control and saying, this is what the service is.
[00:49:29] Marion Ellis: And I do this because if you don't read this report. You know, you might have a shock and you're not going to understand something, and I want you to know everything that you need to know so that you can go and do what you need to do. And I think there's a real responsibility here with consumers who are paying, who are buying a property, and who are paying for a report.
[00:49:51] Marion Ellis: To bloody use it, just like when you buy a, when you buy a car and you put it on the road, you have to have a driving [00:50:00] license
[00:50:00] Mike Schendel: Mm hmm.
[00:50:00] Marion Ellis: on that insurance and have that responsibility. You know, when you buy a property, you have to take on that responsibility too, to make sure that you're keeping it safe, that you're looking after it, that you're maintaining it.
[00:50:13] Marion Ellis: Um, And, you know, you can go on about, you know, how it's the most expensive thing you'll ever buy and all of that business, but it's also probably the most dangerous thing, potentially, if it goes on fire, um, or in terms of your, your health. And so there's a responsibility for you to, okay, you're buying a property.
[00:50:33] Marion Ellis: To keep you warm, safe, and dry. What are you going to do to maintain that,
[00:50:37] Mike Schendel: I was speaking to someone yesterday and he'd had... His next door neighbor had a fire, gutted the whole house, which is rare. He said it's fantastic for them because they've been put in a hotel for a year. He's got to live with the smell coming through the solid walls in his house for the last year. And his insurance company won't do a thing about it, nor theirs.
[00:50:54] Mike Schendel: And I was like, that's very interesting. So I know there's all sorts of laws you can push it, but [00:51:00] are you going to... And you're right, you have to... Yeah, there is a responsibility to live in a house, isn't there? There's a big, and especially flats, Grenfell, we're going down the Grenfell route, you know, there's knocks, but you know, there's a big responsibility here.
[00:51:13] Marion Ellis: that's where I guess you then get into, you know, you don't want to go down to the victim shaming, you know. It's not the tenant's fault that a property is damp, and often landlords blame tenants for all sorts of things. Um, but there's a balance here of... We don't teach people in school to cook properly, to do your, your finance, to manage condensation, and how to live in a home, you know, there's some basic life skills, sadly, um, just as we don't recognize that.
[00:51:46] Marion Ellis: Actually, if you're going to have overcrowded properties, if you're going to have lots of people living in a house, which means it's sweaty and condensation, then you've got to build for that purpose, you know, or, or, or make sure that they're, um, you've got that responsibility to make [00:52:00] sure it's safe and comfortable otherwise.
[00:52:03] Marion Ellis: People will do whatever they need to do in the home, you know, in terms of heating on heating off and, and all of those things. And so it's quite hard, I think, to look at buildings in isolation without people
[00:52:16] Mike Schendel: I, um, I started last year doing a lot of housing disrepair work, but it was a little bit slower. It opened my eyes.
[00:52:24] Marion Ellis: tell What, tell me, tell me about that. For, for some people who've never done that, what is, what is that?
[00:52:28] Mike Schendel: So I was working predominantly for landlords through a company, if they're listening. And, um, I would have to go along, and normally I think what happened was the tenant made a complaint, or a number of complaints, had then gone to a no win, no fees solicitor. I'd come along, working for the Landlord Council Association, just to inspect, the same time as their surveyor.
[00:52:52] Mike Schendel: And we're looking, and it's 99 percent conversation. It is all condensation related issues, but I think [00:53:00] what the eye opener for me is, honestly, how people live. It's difficult. It's difficult to see. So the basic inspection is no different to any other inspection in life. You know, it's the cause. Finding, finding the trail and following it, you know, it's the same thing, there's no difference, but it's how people live and, and not their fault, the poverty is in this country.
[00:53:25] Mike Schendel: I just don't realise. I don't, I mean, it's been a long time for me, you know, and you don't do those flats when you're surveying really. I'm a local authority
[00:53:35] Marion Ellis: I was just about,
[00:53:36] Mike Schendel: Deptford flats as much as maybe I used to.
[00:53:38] Marion Ellis: yeah, I was just about to say, you know, on the residential side, you end up, you're, you're doing remortgages, you're doing house purchases, you're
[00:53:48] Mike Schendel: I've done 10, 000 of those. I don't, haven't seen my salt and housing disappear, I promise you. It's a whole world I haven't seen before. It's deep [00:54:00] into terrible kind of land or country, and you know what I mean, and just neglected houses and lack of education to tenants, of course, there's always that. But I mean, it made me realize, you know, and now what I do is I take my older boy, who's a teenager, into some of these estates, and I say, have a look around you.
[00:54:19] Mike Schendel: See how lucky you are. It's not nice to live. It's not a great place to live if you can help it. Anyway, that's kind of,
[00:54:27] Marion Ellis: Yeah. And maybe that's the, um, that that's the thing that we, we just need to remember as surveyors. We talk about, you know, how diverse our clients are, how diverse surveyors are in the work that
[00:54:39] Mike Schendel: oh no, but we're middle class, home buying class. We're not, we're, there is a whole world, isn't there? And this sounds
[00:54:45] Marion Ellis: there is,
[00:54:46] Mike Schendel: you know, you know, there's a whole world out there that is the non buying public and It makes me think about, you know, the rented sector more, and how it's treated, and how long term tenants [00:55:00] should be treated, and all these things, and, and it's just very interesting.
[00:55:04] Mike Schendel: It's a whole side that, again, we probably don't have time to deal with, but we should be looking at more.
[00:55:09] Marion Ellis: and maybe that's the, the, the thing that surveys we need, we need to do is either get experience of that work because let's face it, I'm sure there was some juicy defects in there that you could, that you saw that you'd never had experience of, but it also means that you've got solution, solutions and it brings that cognitive diversity of thinking of problem solving.
[00:55:30] Marion Ellis: And we only have to open up our blinkers a little bit more to join these. Sustainability webinars to understand a bit more about housing disrepair, you know, and it just opens up our eyes to what's out there and just gives us a different bit of a different perspective that can. can send us as surveyors and property professionals in good stead to help save the world.
[00:55:55] Mike Schendel: Well, yeah, I mean, it won't be in my lifetime, but I think, I'm hoping some of these guys will. [00:56:00] I'm hoping girls will. I hope that's what they would do, and they will, they will then... You know, they will have more one eye on that side that we maybe weren't brought up with and it'd be natural to them to
[00:56:11] Marion Ellis: You know, it would, but you know what, you say that not in my lifetime, but you might live, you know, quite long.
[00:56:18] Mike Schendel: I smoked for 20 years.
[00:56:21] Marion Ellis: So did my gran,
[00:56:22] Mike Schendel: thing. Yeah.
[00:56:23] Marion Ellis: went on forever. I think, but I think that's the thing that I would call you out on in the, not in my lifetime. But some of it can work in a lifetime and what people like you, you're not that much older than me, but people like you can actually contribute to others to help it happen.
[00:56:43] Mike Schendel: Daniel, you're inspiring me now on a Wednesday. I don't like that. Yeah, no, it's true. It is true. There is more. There is more that can help happen and it's Yes, we should, we should. I suppose, how, how, how. [00:57:00] On a small level first, your firm changes its work, that's
[00:57:05] Marion Ellis: all starts, that's all, that's all how it starts. Yeah.
[00:57:09] Mike Schendel: to look at that side of things and you move on.
[00:57:10] Mike Schendel: Yeah, and um, it's interesting, isn't it? It is interesting.
[00:57:15] Marion Ellis: And on that note, Mike, it's been lovely to talk to you today as I leave you with that, right. I'm going to go and change my business and
[00:57:24] Mike Schendel: I know, I know, it's been, yes, sorry if I've babbled.
[00:57:30] Marion Ellis: no, it's been fab. It's been fabulous to talk to you. Thank you so much for your time. I really
[00:57:35] Mike Schendel: been my pleasure and it's always lovely to see you and speak to you.
[00:57:39] Marion Ellis: Thanks for listening. If you're new to the podcast, do check out some of our past recordings and when you're ready, leave me a review at Google.[00:58:00]
[00:58:02] Marion Ellis: Thanks for listening. Thanks for listening. If you're new to the podcast, do check out some of our past recordings. And when you're ready, leave a review on Google or Apple iTunes, or you can buy me a coffee. All the links are in the show notes. And if you want to find out more about how working with me can support your surveying business journey, just drop me a message or take a look at the resources for surveyors and small businesses at lovesurveying.
[00:58:29] Marion Ellis: com. I'll see you next time.
